Comments on: Language for language ? http://amardeepsidhu.com/punjabiat/2008/03/29/language-for-language/ Just another WordPress weblog Thu, 21 Aug 2008 19:54:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Arshdeep http://amardeepsidhu.com/punjabiat/2008/03/29/language-for-language/#comment-76 Arshdeep Mon, 04 Aug 2008 00:06:31 +0000 http://amardeepsidhu.com/punjabiat/2008/03/29/language-for-language/#comment-76 I agree with Muneet and Bhagwant. Here is what I think-I have never seen a Hugarian or a Chinese website in English language to promote Hungarian or Chinese "language". To promote a language we must use the language that we are talking about. It may be better to write in English language IF we are trying to teach a wider audience about "Punjab". Yet if it is Punjabi language that we talking of then the language itself must be used. The questions is also who are we promoting Punjabi language to? What does promotion mean? Are we trying to teach it to people who do not know Punjabi in that case we must look at language teaching tools such as Rosetta Stone's language teaching methods and try to develope a computer based program for people new to Punjabi. On the other hand if it is Punjabi speaking people that we are trying to reach, then we must use Punjabi language in Gurmukhi AND Shahmukhi script. For that we need to have transliteration tools, Unicode etc. APNAORG.COM is doing some stuff like that. We are stuck with this situation but this is what we must do. Another thing that must be understood importantly is that more the people who use Punjabi language and scripts (Gurmukhi and Shamukhi) the more are the chances of commercially interested parties coming in and developing better tools for this language. I just wish I could write all of the above in Punjabi. I find it very hard to understand the meaning of words written in Roman script as Latin based scripts are not compatible with languages based in our region due to obvious reasons. I agree with Muneet and Bhagwant.
Here is what I think-I have never seen a Hugarian or a Chinese website in English language to promote Hungarian or Chinese “language”. To promote a language we must use the language that we are talking about.
It may be better to write in English language IF we are trying to teach a wider audience about “Punjab”. Yet if it is Punjabi language that we talking of then the language itself must be used.
The questions is also who are we promoting Punjabi language to? What does promotion mean? Are we trying to teach it to people who do not know Punjabi in that case we must look at language teaching tools such as Rosetta Stone’s language teaching methods and try to develope a computer based program for people new to Punjabi.
On the other hand if it is Punjabi speaking people that we are trying to reach, then we must use Punjabi language in Gurmukhi AND Shahmukhi script. For that we need to have transliteration tools, Unicode etc. APNAORG.COM is doing some stuff like that. We are stuck with this situation but this is what we must do.
Another thing that must be understood importantly is that more the people who use Punjabi language and scripts (Gurmukhi and Shamukhi) the more are the chances of commercially interested parties coming in and developing better tools for this language.
I just wish I could write all of the above in Punjabi.
I find it very hard to understand the meaning of words written in Roman script as Latin based scripts are not compatible with languages based in our region due to obvious reasons.

]]> By: Rupinder http://amardeepsidhu.com/punjabiat/2008/03/29/language-for-language/#comment-24 Rupinder Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:53:35 +0000 http://amardeepsidhu.com/punjabiat/2008/03/29/language-for-language/#comment-24 ਮੇਰੀ ਮਾਂ ਬੋਲੀ ਨੂੰ ਮਾਰ ਰਹੇ ਨੇ ਮੇਰੀ ਜਿੰਦ ਨੂੰ ਸਾੜ ਰਹੇ ਨੇ ਹੈ ਹੋਰ ਕੌਮ ਸਾਡੇ ਵਰਗੀ? ਪੰਜੌਬੀ ਨੂੰ ਕਾਮਯਾਬੀ ਮਾਰ ਗਈ ਬੇਸ਼ਰਮ ਲੋਕ, ਬੇਸ਼ਰਮ ਜੋਕ ਕਿਹੜੇ ਹਿਸਾਬ ਨਾਲ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ? ਤੁਹਾਡੇ ਖਿਆਲ ਨੇ ਬੇਸੁਆਦੀ ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ ਮੇਰੀ ਮਾਂ ਬੋਲੀ ਨੂੰ ਮਾਰ ਰਹੇ ਨੇ

ਮੇਰੀ ਜਿੰਦ ਨੂੰ ਸਾੜ ਰਹੇ ਨੇ

ਹੈ ਹੋਰ ਕੌਮ ਸਾਡੇ ਵਰਗੀ?

ਪੰਜੌਬੀ ਨੂੰ ਕਾਮਯਾਬੀ ਮਾਰ ਗਈ

ਬੇਸ਼ਰਮ ਲੋਕ, ਬੇਸ਼ਰਮ ਜੋਕ

ਕਿਹੜੇ ਹਿਸਾਬ ਨਾਲ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ?

ਤੁਹਾਡੇ ਖਿਆਲ ਨੇ ਬੇਸੁਆਦੀ

ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ

]]> By: Rupinder http://amardeepsidhu.com/punjabiat/2008/03/29/language-for-language/#comment-20 Rupinder Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:20:31 +0000 http://amardeepsidhu.com/punjabiat/2008/03/29/language-for-language/#comment-20 ਮੇਰੀ ਮਾਂ ਬੋਲੀ ਨੂੰ ਮਾਰ ਰਹੇ ਹੈ ਮੇਰੀ ਜਿੰਦ ਨੂੰ ਸਾੜ ਰਹੇ ਹੈ‍‍ | ਹੋਰ ਕੋਈ ਕੌਮ ਹੈ ਸਾਡੇ ਵਾਰਗੀ? ਹੋਰ ਕੋਈ ਅੰਗਰੇਜ਼ੀ ਲਈ ਮਰਗੀ? ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਨੂੰ ਕਾਮਜ਼ਾਬੀ ਮਾਰ ਗਈ | ਲਾਲਚੀ ਤੁਹਾਨੂੰ ਵਾਰ ਗਈ | ਬੇਸ਼ਾਰਮ ਲੋਕ ਬੇਸ਼ਾਰਮ ਜੋਕ | ਕੇਰੇ ਹਿਆਬ ਨਾਲ ਤੁਸੀ ਹੁਣ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ? ਤੁਹਾਡੇ ਖਿਆਲ ਤਾਂ ਹੈ ਬੇਸੁਆਦੀ | ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ ਮੇਰੀ ਮਾਂ ਬੋਲੀ ਨੂੰ ਮਾਰ ਰਹੇ ਹੈ
ਮੇਰੀ ਜਿੰਦ ਨੂੰ ਸਾੜ ਰਹੇ ਹੈ‍‍ |
ਹੋਰ ਕੋਈ ਕੌਮ ਹੈ ਸਾਡੇ ਵਾਰਗੀ?
ਹੋਰ ਕੋਈ ਅੰਗਰੇਜ਼ੀ ਲਈ ਮਰਗੀ?
ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਨੂੰ ਕਾਮਜ਼ਾਬੀ ਮਾਰ ਗਈ |
ਲਾਲਚੀ ਤੁਹਾਨੂੰ ਵਾਰ ਗਈ |
ਬੇਸ਼ਾਰਮ ਲੋਕ ਬੇਸ਼ਾਰਮ ਜੋਕ |
ਕੇਰੇ ਹਿਆਬ ਨਾਲ ਤੁਸੀ ਹੁਣ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ?
ਤੁਹਾਡੇ ਖਿਆਲ ਤਾਂ ਹੈ ਬੇਸੁਆਦੀ |
ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ

]]> By: Rupinder http://amardeepsidhu.com/punjabiat/2008/03/29/language-for-language/#comment-18 Rupinder Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:43:08 +0000 http://amardeepsidhu.com/punjabiat/2008/03/29/language-for-language/#comment-18 Mainu lagda thin lipi barat nay chiday hain. English , oh bephkoofaa layee jinaa nay aap noon Gurumukhi nahin sikhaaee. Roman, kiokay Pakistanni punjabiaan noon gurumkhi pavay ondee nahin hain, atay finally English. Main is vela navi punjabi sahit likhan lag piaah. Patta mearay ristay kee kainday hain? Chadd day, teru punjabi chungi nahin. Nalay koee paisa Punjabi vich hain nee, nalay koee parhdaa nahin hain, tay parnha chanda. Sab Punjabi tarkee layee keval niaaniaan noon english parhoan chanday ai. Oudaa likhari vee galaa kad day ay, kiokay O Punjabi noon agay nahi lay jaa sakday hain Main keval ik cheez kay sakdaa aa ਹੰਕਾਰੀ ਲੇਖਕਾਂ ਮੈ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਤੋਂ ਕੀ ਲੈਣਾ ਏਂ ਅਤੇ ਮੈਥੋਂ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਨੇ ਕੀ ਲੈਣਾ? ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਨੂੰ ਪਤਾ ਮੈਂ ਕਿ ਹਾਂ ਹੰਕਾਰੀ ਲੇਖਕਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਪਤਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਿ ਹਾਂ| ਅਸੀਂ 'ਨੇਟ ਤੇ ਮਿਲੇ 'ਤੇ ਝੂਠ ਵਾਂਗਰਾਂ ਇੱਕ ਦੂਜੇ ਨੂੰ ਪਿੱਠਾਂ ਦੇ ਕੇ ਲੰਘ ਜਾਵਾਂਗੇ| ਉਹ ਪੋਚ ਨੇ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਰਖੀ ਬਾਸੀ ਮੈਂ ਪ੍ਥਾ ਨੂੰ ਰੱਦਤਾਂ, ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਕਰਤੀ ਖਲਾਸੀ| ਮੈਂ ਲੇਖਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਕੀ ਲੈਣਾ ਏਂ ਅਤੇ ਮੈਥੋਂ ਮਾਹਰਾਂ ਨੇ ਕੀ ਲੈਣਾ? Mainu lagda thin lipi barat nay chiday hain. English , oh bephkoofaa layee jinaa nay aap noon Gurumukhi nahin sikhaaee. Roman, kiokay Pakistanni punjabiaan noon gurumkhi pavay ondee nahin hain, atay finally English.

Main is vela navi punjabi sahit likhan lag piaah. Patta mearay ristay kee kainday hain? Chadd day, teru punjabi chungi nahin. Nalay koee paisa Punjabi vich hain nee, nalay koee parhdaa nahin hain, tay parnha chanda. Sab Punjabi tarkee layee keval niaaniaan noon english parhoan chanday ai.

Oudaa likhari vee galaa kad day ay, kiokay O Punjabi noon agay nahi lay jaa sakday hain

Main keval ik cheez kay sakdaa aa

ਹੰਕਾਰੀ ਲੇਖਕਾਂ

ਮੈ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਤੋਂ ਕੀ ਲੈਣਾ ਏਂ
ਅਤੇ ਮੈਥੋਂ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਨੇ ਕੀ ਲੈਣਾ?
ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਨੂੰ ਪਤਾ ਮੈਂ ਕਿ ਹਾਂ
ਹੰਕਾਰੀ ਲੇਖਕਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਪਤਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਿ ਹਾਂ|
ਅਸੀਂ ‘ਨੇਟ ਤੇ ਮਿਲੇ ‘ਤੇ ਝੂਠ ਵਾਂਗਰਾਂ
ਇੱਕ ਦੂਜੇ ਨੂੰ ਪਿੱਠਾਂ ਦੇ ਕੇ ਲੰਘ ਜਾਵਾਂਗੇ|
ਉਹ ਪੋਚ ਨੇ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਰਖੀ ਬਾਸੀ
ਮੈਂ ਪ੍ਥਾ ਨੂੰ ਰੱਦਤਾਂ, ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਕਰਤੀ ਖਲਾਸੀ|
ਮੈਂ ਲੇਖਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਕੀ ਲੈਣਾ ਏਂ
ਅਤੇ ਮੈਥੋਂ ਮਾਹਰਾਂ ਨੇ ਕੀ ਲੈਣਾ?

]]> By: Aman.... http://amardeepsidhu.com/punjabiat/2008/03/29/language-for-language/#comment-17 Aman.... Mon, 07 Apr 2008 22:05:54 +0000 http://amardeepsidhu.com/punjabiat/2008/03/29/language-for-language/#comment-17 Well as like all have said already, I shall just add with my comment that its indeed a need to be more global with our views so that more and more people can understand what we want to say. And the most global language in the world os English. If more people can understand what we want to tell them, what is Punjab, why is Punjabi so important, Iguess we need to tell them in the language which they understand thebest.Those who can already understand Punjabi, I dont think that they would mind but for those who have left that Punjabiat some where far away, for them, this will be the best and I guess the only way out.So I guess lets keep it this way only. Aman.... Well as like all have said already, I shall just add with my comment that its indeed a need to be more global with our views so that more and more people can understand what we want to say. And the most global language in the world os English. If more people can understand what we want to tell them, what is Punjab, why is Punjabi so important, Iguess we need to tell them in the language which they understand thebest.Those who can already understand Punjabi, I dont think that they would mind but for those who have left that Punjabiat some where far away, for them, this will be the best and I guess the only way out.So I guess lets keep it this way only.
Aman….

]]> By: Sidhu http://amardeepsidhu.com/punjabiat/2008/03/29/language-for-language/#comment-11 Sidhu Wed, 02 Apr 2008 02:21:27 +0000 http://amardeepsidhu.com/punjabiat/2008/03/29/language-for-language/#comment-11 sarian gallan baatan pad ke ehi lagda hai k jo tareeka apna wart rahe haan...ehi sab to wadia hai...bahar baithi navi generation lai angreji ch likhna b jaroori hai...jo apa keh rahe haan je oh pad hi nai sakde tan fer chahe granth likh deiye...oh kise kam nahi... eh apne aap ch ik bade afsos di gal hai...pata nai shayad pichli generation jimmewaar hai ehde lai...k punjabian nu uhna di maa boli baare dassan lai angreji ch likhna painda hai... ik bhasha nu jeonda rakhan lai ik hor bhasha da sahara....es to wadh sharamnaak ki ho sakda hai... khair halaat naal sauda te karna e painda...je enna karke kuch changa ho sakda hai tan asi sare e khushkismat hovange... rab rakha... Sidhu sarian gallan baatan pad ke ehi lagda hai k jo tareeka apna wart rahe haan…ehi sab to wadia hai…bahar baithi navi generation lai angreji ch likhna b jaroori hai…jo apa keh rahe haan je oh pad hi nai sakde tan fer chahe granth likh deiye…oh kise kam nahi…

eh apne aap ch ik bade afsos di gal hai…pata nai shayad pichli generation jimmewaar hai ehde lai…k punjabian nu uhna di maa boli baare dassan lai angreji ch likhna painda hai…

ik bhasha nu jeonda rakhan lai ik hor bhasha da sahara….es to wadh sharamnaak ki ho sakda hai…

khair halaat naal sauda te karna e painda…je enna karke kuch changa ho sakda hai tan asi sare e khushkismat hovange…

rab rakha…

Sidhu

]]> By: Muneet http://amardeepsidhu.com/punjabiat/2008/03/29/language-for-language/#comment-10 Muneet Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:55:58 +0000 http://amardeepsidhu.com/punjabiat/2008/03/29/language-for-language/#comment-10 Kise ne sach keha “ Koi vi Bhasha enni mahaan te waddi hundi hai ke assi usnu kise ek roop vich ekkatha nahi kar sakde” Mere khyaal ch kise vi decision te pahunchan ton pehla kuch galla sochan walain eh ne ke : is website ta maksad ki hai : “ to create awareness” is website di audience kaun hai : “Punjabis who are accessible through nett” Eh swaal da jawab mere hissab naal eh hai ke ,since we are reaching to a far flung diaspora who has been brought up in other cultures is the major target where we need to create awareness. They want to connect to their roots but they cant appreciate the instant route without seeing and being the real Punjab and punajbi culture. So it would rather give them a step wise transition to their own slef and they can appreciate better and feel interested through web ( or our website). At the same time ,I also realize the importance of writing Punjabi : kyonki sadda mantav lokan nu Punjabi de naal jodna hai. Assi khud English da upyog kar k eek galat udharaan pesh karangey. Par sachi gall eh hai, to reach a wider audience and to connect the audience of the web to our roots. We have to go a extra mile and use the other language and slowly slowly we can capture the interest of people who really wants to learn things about their expatriate culture. Baaki jiwe sareyan di rai howe……. Bhull chukk maaf……. Kise ne sach keha “ Koi vi Bhasha enni mahaan te waddi hundi hai ke assi usnu kise ek roop vich ekkatha nahi kar sakde”

Mere khyaal ch kise vi decision te pahunchan ton pehla kuch galla sochan walain eh ne ke :

is website ta maksad ki hai : “ to create awareness”
is website di audience kaun hai : “Punjabis who are accessible through nett”

Eh swaal da jawab mere hissab naal eh hai ke ,since we are reaching to a far flung diaspora who has been brought up in other cultures is the major target where we need to create awareness. They want to connect to their roots but they cant appreciate the instant route without seeing and being the real Punjab and punajbi culture. So it would rather give them a step wise transition to their own slef and they can appreciate better and feel interested through web ( or our website).

At the same time ,I also realize the importance of writing Punjabi : kyonki sadda mantav lokan nu Punjabi de naal jodna hai. Assi khud English da upyog kar k eek galat udharaan pesh karangey.

Par sachi gall eh hai, to reach a wider audience and to connect the audience of the web to our roots. We have to go a extra mile and use the other language and slowly slowly we can capture the interest of people who really wants to learn things about their expatriate culture.

Baaki jiwe sareyan di rai howe…….
Bhull chukk maaf…….

]]> By: gursharan singh http://amardeepsidhu.com/punjabiat/2008/03/29/language-for-language/#comment-8 gursharan singh Tue, 01 Apr 2008 00:13:24 +0000 http://amardeepsidhu.com/punjabiat/2008/03/29/language-for-language/#comment-8 Ithe eh gall v chetey rakhni chahidi hai ke punjabi diyan ik script nahi sagon 2 han. one is Gurmukhi, another is shahmukhi which is written and read in west punjab in pakistan. so far the best communication is going between 2 punjabis from both sides of border is punjabi written in english. on the web it will always be punjabi written in english. but for the print media it is a diffrant ball game. My 2 Paise Ithe eh gall v chetey rakhni chahidi hai ke punjabi diyan ik script nahi sagon 2 han. one is Gurmukhi, another is shahmukhi which is written and read in west punjab in pakistan. so far the best communication is going between 2 punjabis from both sides of border is punjabi written in english. on the web it will always be punjabi written in english. but for the print media it is a diffrant ball game.
My 2 Paise

]]> By: harmeet http://amardeepsidhu.com/punjabiat/2008/03/29/language-for-language/#comment-7 harmeet Sat, 29 Mar 2008 13:30:35 +0000 http://amardeepsidhu.com/punjabiat/2008/03/29/language-for-language/#comment-7 the thing is like this .. it does not matter in which language we write to promote punjabi.. the main thing is this that "do we follow what we read?" "aapa kinna amal karde aa" in my views english can be better caz some people do not know to write in punjabi (on internet) and many many times fonts problem come..(if written in punjabi) :( if we use unicode that is ok but again question comes that we dnt know to type in unicode (even i dnt know to type my name in gurmukhi on internet (computer), not on sheet of paper :)) baaki aapo apni marji aa.. :) the thing is like this .. it does not matter in which language we write to promote punjabi.. the main thing is this that “do we follow what we read?” “aapa kinna amal karde aa” in my views english can be better caz some people do not know to write in punjabi (on internet) and many many times fonts problem come..(if written in punjabi) :( if we use unicode that is ok but again question comes that we dnt know to type in unicode (even i dnt know to type my name in gurmukhi on internet (computer), not on sheet of paper :))

baaki aapo apni marji aa.. :)

]]> By: Bhagwant http://amardeepsidhu.com/punjabiat/2008/03/29/language-for-language/#comment-6 Bhagwant Sat, 29 Mar 2008 03:54:08 +0000 http://amardeepsidhu.com/punjabiat/2008/03/29/language-for-language/#comment-6 Mera khayal hai ki es blog te punjabi hi use karni chahidi hai kyonki apaa eh blog punjabi nu ucha chukan layi shuru kita hai. Doosri gal ki kayi log Gurmukhi nahi pad sakde tan apa koi vich wala rasta labh sakde haan jivain ki english vich punjabi ( matlab ki english letters nu use karke punjabi likhni) jivain ki main hun likh reha haan ! Mera khayal hai ki es blog te punjabi hi use karni chahidi hai kyonki apaa eh blog punjabi nu ucha chukan layi shuru kita hai.
Doosri gal ki kayi log Gurmukhi nahi pad sakde tan apa koi vich wala rasta labh sakde haan jivain ki english vich punjabi ( matlab ki english letters nu use karke punjabi likhni) jivain ki main hun likh reha haan !

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